與華理克牧師面談 (Interview with Rick Warren）

以下是《標竿人生》(Purpose Driven Life)一書的作者華理克牧師(Rev.Rick Warren) 在美國的Nite Line 節目上接受 Paul Bradshaw 的訪問。華理克是美國加州馬鞍峰教會(Saddleback Church) 的牧師。他的太太Kay患了癌症。他因為書籍暢銷而賺了「財富」。

Paul Bradshaw訪問華理克，華理克說：

人們問我：「人生的目的是什麼？」我便回答：「簡單來說，生命就是為永生而作準備。我們被造是為永恆的將來，神希望我們與祂一同在天堂裡。」有一天我的心臟會停止跳動，這只是肉身上的結束，不是我的完結。我或許在世上活到60歲至100歲，但我會繼續在永恆中活億萬年。世上的生命只是熱身，一場預演。神希望我們在世上實習，為永恆的將來作好準備。我們是神創造的，也是為祂而做的。只要你明白這點，生命就有意義。

人生中充滿一連串的問題：你或是面對著問題，或是剛解決了，或是已準備好去迎接下一個。原因是神想塑造你的品格，多於想安慰你。神希望使你的生命更加聖潔，多於使你生命更快樂。我們在世上可以很開心快活，但這不是生命的目標。目標是要在品格上成長，像基督一樣。

過去一年是我人生中最豐盛的一年，也是最困難的一年；因為我的太太Kay患了癌症。我一直認為人生就像高山和低谷，你經過了黑暗，然後就會到達山頂，重複又重複。但我不再相信了。 不止人生有高低起跌，而且更像一頭火車在雙路軌上行走一樣。很多時候，你的人生有好的事和壞的事同時發生。不論你的生命中有多少好的東西，但總有些壞的事情需要你去處理。亦不論你的生命中有多少不好的東西，但總有些好的事情你需要去感謝神。

你可以集中注意在你的目標上，或可以集中注意在問題上。

​如果你集中注意在問題上，你會變得自我：「這是我的問題、我的事、我的痛苦。」但最容易解決痛苦的方法，就是不再集中在自己身上，而是集中在神和其他人身上。

我們很快發現儘管有千萬人為Kay祈禱，神也不會醫好Kay或讓她舒服好過一點。對Kay來說很困難，但神加強了她的毅力，給她機會去幫助其他人，給她見證，讓她更親近神和其他人。

你要學習怎樣處理人生中的好事和不如意的事。其實，有時去處理一些好事是較困難的。例如：過去一年，突然之間我的書賣了一千五百萬冊，我突然變得富有起來。 但也帶來很多名譽，是我從來都沒有經歷過的。我不相信神賜予金錢和名譽是因為要給你自尊或讓你的生活更好過。所以我開始問神要我怎樣處理這些金錢、名譽和影響力。祂給了我兩篇經文，可以幫助我決定怎樣做：哥林多後書第九章和詩篇第七十二篇。

首先，儘管金錢不斷湧入，但我們不會改變生活模式，我們沒有花巨額金錢購物。第二，直至去年，我沒有支取教會的薪金。第三，我們建立了一個基金去推展「和平計劃」，用來建新堂、裝備領袖、幫助貧窮、照顧有病的人和教育下一代。第四，我把過去24年牧會期間，教會給我的薪金總數，全部奉獻給回教會，可說是名副其實的免費事奉神。

我們要問自己：我們是否為了財產、知名度而活呢？我們是否要被壓力、罪疚、痛苦或物質主義支配著呢？還是，我們要被神的目標帶領著一生呢？當我早上起床的時候，我坐在床邊說：「神啊！如果我今天不做其他的事，我願意認識祢和愛祢更多。」神不是放我在世上去完成一個「工作表」，祂重視我是誰，多於我做什麼。所以我們是人(Human Beings)，不是「牛」(Human Doings)！

快樂時，要讚美神！
困難時，要尋求神！
安靜時，要敬拜神！
痛苦時，要相信神！
每時刻，要感謝神！  
                                                    
  – Agnes 中文翻譯

Interview with Rick Warren , author and pastor of Saddleback Church in California .

In the interview by Paul Bradshaw with Rick Warren, Rick said:

People ask me, What is the purpose of life? And I respond: In a nutshell, life is preparation for eternity. We were made to last forever, and God wants us to be with Him in Heaven.

One day my heart is going to stop, and that will be the end of my body– but not the end of me.
I may live 60 to 100 years on earth, but I am going to spend trillions of years in eternity. This is the warm-up act – the dress rehearsal.

God wants us to practice on earth what we will do forever in eternity. We were made by God and for God, and until you figure that out, life isn’t going to make sense.

Life is a series of problems: Either you are in one now, you’re just coming out of one, or you’re getting ready to go into another one.

The reason for this is that God is more interested in your character than your comfort.

God is more interested in making your life holy than He is in making your life happy.

We can be reasonably happy here on earth, but that’s not the goal of life. The goal is to grow in character, in Christ likeness.

This past year has been the greatest year of my life but also the toughest, with my wife getting cancer.

I used to think that life was hills and valleys – you go through a dark time, then you go to the mountaintop, back and forth. I don’t believe that anymore.

Rather than life being hills and valleys, I believe that it’s kind of like two rails on a railroad track, and at all times you have something good and something bad in your life.

No matter how good things are in your life, there is always something bad that needs to be worked on.

And no matter how bad things are in your life, there is always something good you can thank God for.

You can focus on your purposes, or you can focus on your problems.

If you focus on your problems, you’re going into self-centeredness, “which is my problem, my issues, my pain.”

But one of the easiest ways to get rid of pain is to get your focus off yourself and onto God and others.
​
We discovered quickly that in spite of the prayers of hundreds of thousands of people, God was not going to heal my wife or make it easy for her.

It has been very difficult for her, and yet God has strengthened her character, given her a ministry of helping other people, given her a testimony, drawn her closer to Him and to people.

You have to learn to deal with both the good and the bad of life. Actually, sometimes learning to deal with the good is harder. For instance, this past year, all of a sudden, when the book sold 15 million copies, it made me instantly very wealthy.

It also brought a lot of notoriety that I had never had to deal with before. I don’t think God gives you money or notoriety for your own ego or for you to live a life of ease.

So I began to ask God what He wanted me to do with this money, notoriety and influence. He gave me two different passages that helped me decide what to do, II Corinthians 9 and Psalm 72.

First, in spite of all the money coming in, we would not change our lifestyle one bit. We made no major purchases.
Second, about midway through last year, I stopped taking a salary from the church.

Third, we set up foundations to fund an initiative we call The Peace Plan to plant churches, equip leaders, assist the poor, care for the sick, and educate the next generation.

Fourth, I added up all that the church had paid me in the 24 years since I started the church, and I gave it all back. It was liberating to be able to serve God for free.

We need to ask ourselves: Am I going to live for possessions? Popularity? Am I going to be driven by pressures? Guilt? Bitterness? Materialism? Or am I going to be driven by God’s purposes (for my life)?

When I get up in the morning, I sit on the side of my bed and say, God, if I don’t get anything else done today, I want to know You more and love You better …

God didn’t put me on earth just to fulfill a to-do list. He’s more interested in what I am than what I do. That’s why we’re called human beings, not human doings.
​
Happy moments, PRAISE GOD.
Difficult moments, SEEK GOD.
Quiet moments, WORSHIP GOD.
Painful moments, TRUST GOD.
Every moment, THANK GOD